Some of the biggest names on Google's AI team got new jobs this week, with some departing the company entirely. Notable among them is Jeff Dean, described as a 'legendary Googler,' whose new role is no longer at Google.

The conversation examines whether Google's models seem to be behind the best offerings from Anthropic and OpenAI, raising questions about whether the leadership changes signal Google is in turmoil. The discussion explores potential motivations, including whether Demis Hassabis might be seeking more interesting work than virtual assistants.

The Vergecast hosts discuss the leadership shake-up, the state of the AI race, and whether Google is set up to succeed. They also explore how Google and Reddit have become existentially dependent on each other, and why that dependence is starting to look like a problem.